Curse

Bright Star Shine · Jan 12, 2011, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Hardly the "worst faceroll in history of GW". Anyone role besides the tank in DoAsc is equally mindless....wait for tank to ball...1.2.3.4....well u get the picture. I find it very hard for one to complain about DwG when they use SF. Now if you want challenge try doing DoA like Barbie Pryncess' guild/team....w/o and spell protection and w/o DwG. If you did that...then I could possibly see room for one to complain, but not when one exploits the OP of SF then complains about OP of DwG. It really does seem rather hypocritical.

Yes, it is, once you know what you're doing. If you got people that don't know shit about what's going on, stuff's gonna fail.

The big difference is, with SF tanks and stuff, you've got such a diversity of tactics. I know of at least 4 different tactics that are being run in veil, and some are COMPLETELY different. Same with gloom etc. I run with different guilds, because I've got friends here and there, so I've seen the differences.

And lol @ the reference to [ToA] (no offense Barbie, you know I like you

) but that's hardly done out of principle. They do normal DoASC too, with SF tanks and stuff. Just not on such an insane basis as us or [Zraw] for example. And they do balanced DoA for fun, just to prove you can, to make a statement, and I respect that. It's like us doing random retarded builds run in dungeons, just to make a statement, that the meta isn't what you NEED to be doing, people just do it out of lazyness. They don't want to think about what they're doing. (for the record, random retarded builds are awesome and a guaranteed laugh^^ Just a hint) And even Barbie invited me to do with DoA with them too, but I never got to cause I was doing other shit, and I'm pretty sure she wasn't inviting me to do balanced way (although I wouldn't mind, I'm kind of curious myself)

I advise you get to know the DoASC world before you start referring to shit you don't know anything about. And besides, Barbie was in [ToYs] and [GS] and occasionally goes on runs with us (although after her last rage, some people are not so happy anymore

) So she's been doing DoASC a lot longer than myself, and since before DwG was the meta, so again, know what you're talking about..

Essence Snow · Jan 13, 2011, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

I advise you get to know the DoASC world before you start referring to shit you don't know anything about. And besides, Barbie was in [ToYs] and [GS] and occasionally goes on runs with us (although after her last rage, some people are not so happy anymore

) So she's been doing DoASC a lot longer than myself, and since before DwG was the meta, so again, know what you're talking about..

I'm pretty sure it is obvious.....Complaining about one skill being OP in an area when one uses a skill that is even more OP in the same area seems hypo-cri-ti-cal. Even a DwG team needs to know where to go, not to over aggro, etc and I'm sure if a chimp can learn that they can learn to wait for a ping and spike.
Nothing prevents one from creating more challenge for themselves in an area. If you want more challenge you can have it. How does PuGs runing DwG effect anyone else? I can only see two reasons.....a) greed and b) self-absorbtion.

ex. a) I have a lot of ambraces and the price has been cheapened by DwG...I want it nerfed.

ex. b) I pride myself on my mastery of an area and don't like others being able to complete it.....I want it nerfed and mom I told you, no crust on my pbj!!!

Bright Star Shine · Jan 13, 2011, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

I'm pretty sure it is obvious.....Complaining about one skill being OP in an area when one uses a skill that is even more OP in the same area seems hypo-cri-ti-cal. Even a DwG team needs to know where to go, not to over aggro, etc and I'm sure if a chimp can learn that they can learn to wait for a ping and spike.
Nothing prevents one from creating more challenge for themselves in an area. If you want more challenge you can have it. How does PuGs runing DwG effect anyone else? I can only see two reasons.....a) greed and b) self-absorbtion.

ex. a) I have a lot of ambraces and the price has been cheapened by DwG...I want it nerfed.

ex. b) I pride myself on my mastery of an area and don't like others being able to complete it.....I want it nerfed and mom I told you, no crust on my pbj!!!

The funny part is, I never claimed DwG is OP, I've even stated multiple times that it's a shit skill, because it works less good then other skills, therefor making the meta even worse, because it can be done better.

And, I am sort of guilty of the elitist part, but I don't mind PUGs doing DoA, if you read my posts instead of randomly flaming me, you would've known that, I just don't like the fact that they do it in such an utterly mindless and retarded way.

So again, do some research please, before you start accusing me from al sorts of things.

Essence Snow · Jan 13, 2011, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

The funny part is, I never claimed DwG is OP, I've even stated multiple times that it's a shit skill, because it works less good then other skills, therefor making the meta even worse, because it can be done better.

And, I am sort of guilty of the elitist part, but I don't mind PUGs doing DoA, if you read my posts instead of randomly flaming me, you would've known that, I just don't like the fact that they do it in such an utterly mindless and retarded way.

So again, do some research please, before you start accusing me from al sorts of things.

Okay, so I went back and read some of your posts. Yes, you nvr said it was OP, you just want to nerf a skill just b/c you don't like that ppl use it to complete DoA. I don't know which is worse...wanting to nerf a skill for (non)OPness or just wanting it nerfed b/c u don't like other ppl using it. Once again if it does not effect u 1 ioda...why do u care?

Xiaquin · Jan 13, 2011, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

I'm pretty sure it is obvious.....Complaining about one skill being OP in an area when one uses a skill that is even more OP in the same area seems hypo-cri-ti-cal. Even a DwG team needs to know where to go, not to over aggro, etc and I'm sure if a chimp can learn that they can learn to wait for a ping and spike.
Nothing prevents one from creating more challenge for themselves in an area. If you want more challenge you can have it. How does PuGs runing DwG effect anyone else? I can only see two reasons.....a) greed and b) self-absorbtion.

ex. a) I have a lot of ambraces and the price has been cheapened by DwG...I want it nerfed.

ex. b) I pride myself on my mastery of an area and don't like others being able to complete it.....I want it nerfed and mom I told you, no crust on my pbj!!!

Quote:

Okay, so I went back and read some of your posts. Yes, you nvr said it was OP, you just want to nerf a skill just b/c you don't like that ppl use it to complete DoA. I don't know which is worse...wanting to nerf a skill for (non)OPness or just wanting it nerfed b/c u don't like other ppl using it. Once again if it does not effect u 1 ioda...why do u care?

Not personally attacking, but when people say "why do you care if people use X?" it makes no sense. Lots of things were nerfed in PvE and weren't "hurting" anyone. That just sounds like a PvP argument; PvE balance has different reasoning behind it. Monsters don't talk back, so they can be romped with ridiculous metas and people will defend everything, because, well, who cares about them?

We can't have a discussion on PvE balance if that's how it's going to sound.

Apok · Jan 13, 2011, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Considering it allows every profession to be involved in the run, I do not have a problem with it.

Though, I agree that it's more easymode than ursan and 600 smite combined. Maybe add a delay to the damage or just make it so the damage applies when you cast it, not when you drop the pot.

/shrugs shoulders

Bright Star Shine · Jan 13, 2011, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Okay, so I went back and read some of your posts. Yes, you nvr said it was OP, you just want to nerf a skill just b/c you don't like that ppl use it to complete DoA. I don't know which is worse...wanting to nerf a skill for (non)OPness or just wanting it nerfed b/c u don't like other ppl using it. Once again if it does not effect u 1 ioda...why do u care?

I care because I don't like people running this, because it's reducing DoA to a giant moshpit (which IRL isn't bad) where you spam 1-2-1-2-1-2 and drop your shit. It's the easy button for nooby players to get the high-end items. Again, I don't mind new players getting the elite items, or armbraces, it's just the way they get it. It's just tossing the bone, it's supposed to be high-end items, an "Elite" area, there shouldn't be such an easybutton. If they run balanced way like ToA does, I don't mind (no idea what their builds are though) even if they can clear it in HM in 1h with those builds, because those builds will require coordinated gameplay and at least some mental effort. They will "earn" their armbraces instead of just being handed to them.

Hope that clarifies it, dunno if my structure is understandable..

Just Sai · Jan 13, 2011, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Not personally attacking, but when people say "why do you care if people use X?" it makes no sense.

Quote:

ex. a) I have a lot of ambraces and the price has been cheapened by DwG...I want it nerfed.

and the truth is revealed

how self centered is that?
greed much?

the only other plausible reason to have issues in PVE would be an offclass being refused pug and qqing out of spite

time is short, torment weps are expensive for new players
lay off, not everyones been here for 5 years and still a millionare from ursan

Mcsnake85 · Jan 14, 2011, 10:41 AM // 10:41

I said it 100 post ago that it was only for ambrace....lol

Xiaquin · Jan 14, 2011, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Sai

and the truth is revealed

how self centered is that?
greed much?

You were quoted two different people there, and I'm not sure what you were trying to point out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Sai

time is short, torment weps are expensive for new players lay off, not everyones been here for 5 years and still a millionare from ursan

This game is not ending when GW2 is released, and people that have been here for 3-5 years aren't all millionaires.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

Considering it allows every profession to be involved in the run, I do not have a problem with it.

So, they could have made it so anyone can /A perma?

Quote:

Though, I agree that it's more easymode than ursan and 600 smite combined. Maybe add a delay to the damage or just make it so the damage applies when you cast it, not when you drop the pot.

How about bumping up energy, activation or recharge to properly reflect the power it has? An elementalist spends two seconds attuning, and a ranger spends two seconds preparing arrows. Is it so bloody impossible to suggest a rit have a cost for being so powerful?

Iron Smerf · Jan 20, 2011, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Elite areas are supposed to take skill, not take less effort than NM missions :/ . Team co-operation should be present in all areas to succeed, if a rit can just spam 1,2,1,2,1,2 for 20 minutes.. wheres the timing, cooperation, skill, teamwork? There really is none..

/signed again

Del · Jan 20, 2011, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Smerf

Elite areas are supposed to take skill, not take less effort than NM missions :/ . Team co-operation should be present in all areas to succeed, if a rit can just spam 1,2,1,2,1,2 for 20 minutes.. wheres the timing, cooperation, skill, teamwork? There really is none..

/signed again

As opposed to one guy tanking, and everyone else spamming? It's the same concept as real DoAsc builds, minus the tank and effectiveness. Got any more fallacious logic there buddy?

Coast · Jan 20, 2011, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Its way different, don't talk if u got no idea what ur talking about.(Del)
Btw, DwG holds fow record; there u go all ignorant people who say it's only used in doa...

Avalanche · Jan 20, 2011, 08:02 PM // 20:02

I don't see a problem with it at all.
Sure it's sorta easy, been doing doa runs last few weeks.. yet theres fails sometimes, rare but it happens. Also they mainly run in NM, in HM i barely got through unless it was a guild team who took me with them. So without dedicating alot of time into it, you wont get rich by playing dwg in nm doa. Runs also take up to 2 hours + preperation + people never have cons lol

I think it's a good way for pugs, imagine it was nerfed and some new build came up thats harder.. then as a casual gamer you wont really get any runs going and not everyone wants to join a SC guild. Of course people could just run balanced teams then and try to beat the elite area but honestly.. who would still it? it would be as deserted as Urgoz and Deep is..

And i dont see how manly way is any harder, the only guy who really has to be cautions is the T1, the warriors just press 12345 ect. as monk you rarely ever haveto press a button at all. The rt just keeps his spirits up. Neco spams his combo once too. MT just balls mob up and done.

It's alot more user friendly this way + the people who invest alot of time into playing and go into SC guilds still get to be richer. Considering the faster times + HM they make 3 times as much money as all the pugs, within same time. And they also probably run some mesmer spike instead of dwg, which i doubt requires more thinking.

However nerf all the sc possiblities or leave it be. (thats if you consider a 2hour run a sc)

NerfHerder · Jan 20, 2011, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

Its way different, don't talk if u got no idea what ur talking about.(Del)
Btw, DwG holds fow record; there u go all ignorant people who say it's only used in doa...

/sigh

The FoW with the DwG used Shadow Form sins. No way near the same build. According to the anti-DwG crowd, they used "skill".

Del does know what he is talking about. Its just another caster spike. The fact that you can clear NM DoA with 3 players and heros in the same time it takes Glaiveway speaks volumes about how "OP" it is. When 6 DwGs and two Monks start dominating all the HM SCs as one big mob, then we can talk.

What we really should be discussing is why is it even possible for a SF/ER Prot to solo an entire area and pull huge mobs without dying. Even if it does take skill. I congratulate the ones who discovered how to SC HM areas with clever tactics and parlor tricks like SF. But, the fact that it can be done at all screams for a nerf. I dont call it teamwork when you can run off without the rest of your team and complete areas/quests. At least DwG has all 8 players working together and they actually clear most of the foes in the area.

Del · Jan 20, 2011, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

Its way different, don't talk if u[sic] got no idea what ur[sic] talking about.(Del)

Are you really daft enough to say I don't know what i'm talking about when you actually believe casterspam in doasc builds is more skillful than casterspamming in dwg builds? You're a very silly person.

esjay · Jan 20, 2011, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

All you QQ'ers are focusing your whining in the wrong direction. What about the Imbagon?! You all realize that's the only reason these DwG's can do what they do right?! RIGHT?!

Hey!
Lay off the Paragons.
We have nothing else.
Kay?
I'm serious...

Grj · Jan 20, 2011, 11:18 PM // 23:18

As long as consets remain in this game I don't know how anybody can take these nerf x threads seriously.

And lol @ the it makes a mockery of an elite area crowd, where was you all when people where 55in it up in the UW?

Too busy drowning in ecto's to care huh

Xiaquin · Jan 21, 2011, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avalanche

I think it's a good way for pugs, imagine it was nerfed and some new build came up thats harder.. then as a casual gamer you wont really get any runs going and not everyone wants to join a SC guild. Of course people could just run balanced teams then and try to beat the elite area but honestly.. who would still it? it would be as deserted as Urgoz and Deep is..

"Elite" should have some meaning to its name. Spam-dropping item bundles is not elite; stacking cons on top of perma spell immunity is not elite. Ideally, these areas should present challenges to every role in a party and not allow such silliness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grj

And lol @ the it makes a mockery of an elite area crowd, where was you all when people where 55in it up in the UW?

Too busy drowning in ecto's to care huh

Where was I, arriving at TotA in the old days? Enraged that two professions ran the table, I just kept it to myself because I didn't know anyone or about the forums. Either way, it stank then and it stinks now.

By the way, I've only ever had one ecto drop in my few visits to UW. The assumptions of others are getting tiring, like this thread.

Bright Star Shine · Jan 21, 2011, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

The assumptions of others are getting tiring, like this thread.

Yep, even I got sick of it.. I think most of your arguments are very valid, it would make it deserted, DoASC as we do it is also a bit mindless once you get the hold of it, some people just want it gone out of greed etc etc..

But my point still rests, that DwG as it is used now, is a mockery, even if you call SF a mockery too (although, some parts about tanking are everything but easy, trust me) because it is practically iddqd.

Rest aside the DoA concept, or any SC concept it is used in actually, if you look at the skill itself, do you still dare say that it is not OP? You can pump out 100+ Lightning damage every 5 secs, with a 3/4 casting time, and 5 energy cost? Not only that, but it gives you 20% armor penetration to all other ritualist skills too, combined with cracked armor, you get a considerable amount of damage there, and for a bargain. Only downside? you gotta stand in the middle of the mob, but there are enough skills who can take care of that.

So, in DoA, the skill sucks, but it is still a WAY too powerful skill which should be revised. I mean, it's only slight counterpart, Grasping was Kuurong, deals a lot less damage, costs 15 energy and has a 20 sec cooldown, only extra thing it does is KD shit, but that's hardly a bonus..

Give me an example, of ANY skill that can pump out a similar amount of damage, with a similar cooldown/energy cost etc, and we will talk again.